Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Good morning. Welcome to another edition of Haller's Playbook.
In this endless summer of sport which continues and we're almost on the edge of the rugby season this week, I'm delighted to welcome Glenn Ward, he's the head of compliance at Mass.
And I'd like to thank Mass Group at the off for sponsoring this podcast, Multi Asset Solutions, Foreign Exchange, Gold Digital Assets and Mass Funds. And I'd like to thank them for their commitment to this.
We're going to be more business oriented and actually just to pick a current moment in time, this is the morning where certain analysts are saying that the gold price could hit $5,000.
Because one of the key moments in the financial markets at the minute is the independence of the Fed and whether or not Donald Trump is going to interfere over much.
Will that affect the dollar as a reserve, as a global reserve currency status, does that push people towards gold? So it is a very, very interesting moment in time in financial markets as it is every single week in the sporting markets. So we're going to take a trip back down memory lane a little bit. And I myself in fact was something called a blue button back in the equity market days of the 80s when you actually put on a blue badge, you went onto the market floor, you stood around receiving prices from market makers and that was the UK market. It was an open outcry, face to face trading market. Cause none of that exists now in the world of automation technology, artificial intelligence and all those trends. So wow, we really have moved on a long, long way. But Glenn, we are similar vintages. First of all, welcome and I'd like to take you back to the beginning if I may. You know, I was a trader on the floor and I believe you were as well. So just talk us through those early days in the commodities market, wasn't there?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. I started on the London sugar futures market back in 1980.
What they called a rostrum Clark then was when you it wasn't a pit system, it was the ring system, you know, very old and used to sit in the middle with a keypad type in the prices of what was trading around you up on the screens that went back to certain offices.
The problem was all the trades, you just shouted you for getting the price wrong. But when it was busy it'd be trading at three different prices anyway.
So this was just indicative of what was happening on the market. So very, very busy times.
When I started, the sugar market particularly was busy because that's sort of in a way the first FX market, the Life Exchange hadn't opened up in.
So what people would do was, was buy sugar in London which was priced in sterling and sell sugar in New York which is priced in dollars. So they're squaring sugar but it would give them the FX hedge.
So that was the first FX hedge on the cable was trading sugar. So they were very, very busy. Of course when Life opened up the market died off.
But in terms of compliance, which you know, I'm the head of compliance at Mass, it was pretty much non existent in the days.
Some firms were probably not so conscientious as others. The firms I worked was Gillen Duffers at the time was one of the oldest firms in the UK and was very honorable. You had to be gentlemen at the time. But there were one or two dark horses in there. And probably one thing to look at going back on those times was, was the cost of executing trades. I mean we would charge about 40 pounds sterling per lot for clearing and 10 pound a lot for execution.
That was one contract being 50 tons of sugar at the time.
So it was quite easy to earn quite a bit of money if you were just broken your business. Well, so there was no compliance. But people learned that if you were good with compliance, it helped your business if you looked after your clients.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: So there was no recordings in those days was the particularly. So it was like my word is the great mayum dictum as pactum, my word is my bond. And what you commit to in contract terms and some of the recording processes certainly in stock market, equity, stock market similarly, you really had to rely on people's word a lot, didn't you in the early days as opposed to on the written word. But some of the recorded telephones and things like that weren't really in existence, were they?
[00:04:59] Speaker A: There was no recorded telephones, there was no recording trades. You were, you trade with a counterparty and you wrote a chit out and you sent it into the rostrum who tried to match off all these chits.
So sometimes some people were putting tricks for trades they didn't do and, and have an argument etc. Etc. And obviously it was very open to human error as well, especially when it was extremely busy.
You know, I've had two phones in that hand, two phones in that hand and you could trade from the, the, the booze where the phones were at the time as well. So you'll be juggling like this with your different clients. You're not writing anything down. It's just all memory afterwards. What did I trade and who did I trade with. And you thought you traded with one counterparty and another one gives you the cheat. And so it was, it was bedlam really.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: There were lots of error accounts telling someone I bought something when in fact I'd sold it. And you know, we had to work it out in some sort of process, but it was mayhem. And there was a lot of chances to make easy money. There's a lot of chances to lose a lot of money as well. And of course the system had to modernize.
I think a lot of people listening into this will be fascinated. That sugar and that market and the foreign exchange nature of it as kind of the origin. Because you then moved on, didn't you, to other soft commodities and into the oil market.
Was that a natural transition for you to go from there up into these other, more core markets?
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it was for a lot of people. In sugar, the sugar sort of volume just nose dived for one thing. They thought it'd be handy to make it quoted in dollars and not in pound sterling anymore. But it already lost that FX hedge once the life exchange opened up and people could hedge on there and there was more hedge in otc, so the volumes died and there was a bit of a migration from the soft commodity, sugar, coffee, cocoa, into the oil market which was booming at the time because of the Gulf War.
It was, the volumes were crazy, it was a different system.
So yes, I found myself moving over onto the oil floor. But I've always wanted to have a bit of an edge. When I was a broker I actually studied a lot of technical analysis and I got a diploma with the sta. So which is help when you're talking to clients because they always think they're clever than you and to be able to turn around and say to them, but yeah, if you've got a diploma and technical analysis, you know, it was, it was a nice angle to have.
And then I wanted to get into options as well.
I just like the mathematics of options and sort of the different scenarios of different positions you could put on. You know, if the market's flat and there's no up or down movement, will the traders go down the pub? Because there's no way to make money. Yeah, sell a straddle, sell a strangle, you know, use the volatility of an option to actually make money when the market's flat. I found that very interesting.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: The traders in those days, I remember. And then you talk about going down to the pub if there was nothing going on.
Certainly I can remember vividly. You have A good morning's trade and then people go to Jonathan's just across the road in Threadneedle street for a glass of wine or go to the Long Room for a steak or something like, you know, the days were very different then to what they are now because there was so much interpersonal. And I think one of the challenges for businesses today is to, is to maintain, retain personal contact.
And the personalities do matter, don't they, in a world of, of increased automation.
And you having been in that early phase, you are now sitting as head of compliance in a fast growing company that operates across all these asset classes. And how would you summarize the difference between what you experienced then and what it looks like now? Because it is so fundamental, the change, isn't it, on a number of levels?
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I mean digital trading is just transformed it altogether. And there's also the compliance side, there's sort of two sides. I mean as a broker, you know, you try and bring up your clients and get them to trade, they can just put it in a platform themselves. They don't need you.
Initially when the pits and the floors were closing down, brokers were still used.
Traders would still use brokers because they might want it to disguise. They didn't want to enter the market and people say, oh, you know, shall I buy none? I'm going to jump in front of them.
So they used to use brokers to disguise what they were doing, but that didn't last too long. They can input the trades themselves.
So as a broker, you had to be everyone's best friend. You know, I got so fat because I was whining and dining people all the time. If you didn't, you weren't included. It was about relationships as well, not just about being good at your job, giving good advice, giving good execution on the floor. It was taking about wine and then dining them. That's gone and that's gone from a compliance side as well. Now brokers, you know, you can't take out bribery and corruption and et cetera, et cetera. You can't take people out, give them a good time and hope for business in return.
It just doesn't happen. I mean, I was lived through that progression. I used to have, you know, some, some of my clients became very good personal friends.
And I was maybe one time thinking of moving back into the oil. Broke in on the option side and I spoke to a very big oil trading friend of mine and said, you'll give me some business? And he said, well no, because you're my friend. And I said, yeah, that's why you should give me some business. And he said, no, my compliance know that you're my friend and if I start giving you business again, that's mean trouble with compliance.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: So that's still a scenario that you, you have to declare.
Yeah.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Each company has to decide relationship limit.
Yeah. And also, you know, if you're doing entertainment, you got to put a level on, on gifts and meals out, et cetera, et cetera. You've, you know, you've got to put a sensible limit on and anything above that you have to. To log into your, your files. So the FT come in and you know, can. You can say them. Look, you know, I, I limit of £250 for a dinner, but this one went to 350 and this is why, you know, or I accepted a, a bottle of wine at Christmas from someone and it's all logged. So, you know, different. Different world from the old days. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
I think the first rugby match I took one of my clients to see was it Twickenham was England against Western Samar. I think they were at the time and I think you were probably playing that long ago. But yeah, we don't want to go that far.
But yeah, it was.
As I said before, people do don't use brokers so much now because they execute their own trades.
But you can't dislodge any information inside trading in the market abuse. It's one of the strengths I've seen come from the fca. They're very, very hot on market abuse.
It's a daily role that I do.
We use at mas a combination of electronic surveillance. I get reports produced, but then I manually sit down on a daily basis and look through different reports and just sort of use logic and to make sure there's no market abuse going on.
To be fair, in, in our sort of industry in the. There's, there's no room for insider trading, there's no room.
Our prices aren't seen in a marketplace, so you can't spoof a market. So always being vigilant, always being aware. But the expectation is I'll be surprised if we did pick up any market abuse going through our.
Not just our company, but anyone in our industry in our portfolio. It's difficult to really, if you're going to spoof the market, you don't use an FX broker.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: But I will just return back to your comment about Western Samoa because when they beat Wales in the 91 World cup, the Welsh captain asked, how do you feel after that defeat, he said, could have been worse. We might have been playing against all of Samoa because Samoa is now fully integrated. Is Samoa who play and most notably the Women's World cup, they're currently playing. So there's always that joke, could Wales really have lost against a bit of Samoa?
Which always makes it. Some of these rugby jokes can last forever. But going back to these trends in compliance, given the advent of digital assets and tokenization and all of these trends which are going on, I said at the top of the show, talking about the gold price possibly going to another levels and dollar not being the reserve currency always was.
How do you see compliance trends changing to suit these different markets which are growing? Because it's going to create challenges for compliance and regulation, isn't it?
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in terms of cryptos and digital currencies, to start with, the FCA sort of didn't want to know. They were sort of.
Sort of, be fair. Not they didn't want to know, they didn't want to regulate them because they thought they'd be endorsing them. And when they first come out, bitcoin, you know, it was. The dark market was using this a lot. There was a lot of money laundering and crime going on. And plus, it's the education of the. The retail customers that there were a lot of firms out there saying, just invest into crypto and you'll make loads of money.
Which is not true because it's a market that moves like everything else. So the FCA were concerned that if they regulated this, that the incline would think, oh, FTA regulating it, it's fine, I'll dump all my money in cryptos and I'll make loads.
So that was the initial reaction. And then I think over the past five years or so, a lot of people looking hard at digital currencies and they're realizing that the blockchain technology behind it is a really good thing.
And if they can clean up the crypto markets, which they appear to be doing now, it's a good asset for everyone.
And I believe the regulators are getting on board with this as well now. So initially they were.
Any crypto firms in the UK might be regulated by the fca, but they had to register with them to do any marketing. But now they've announced that they are going to start regulating the market because I think people believe it is the way forward.
And looking at due diligence we're doing on sort of funds we're receiving from crypto wallets now, we can find. Actually, you can look, in the history of the wallets, it's quite a good way of checking where your money comes from because it's face at the end of the day, you get £100 out of cash point, you don't know where that pound notes have been.
But if you take crypto payment, you do know where that's been.
The technology.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Fascinating. Yeah, fascinating.
And there'll be so much more to hear on this. I wanted to switch tack a little bit and just because you've been at Mass from the beginning and obviously you've got huge amounts of experience around the market, tell us something of the challenges of being in at the start of a small sort of nation company that's now growing so fast.
What were the challenges that you had to embrace and deal with and get over?
Just give us a few examples.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah, certainly. I think once a small firm becomes regulated, you're talking, I don't know, maybe three or four people.
Once you've got that regulation, the whole of the FTA rulebook applies to you. And you know, it's a vast thing.
No one can really know it inside out kicking off. So you've got to sort of learn on the hoof.
And once you start, you're not going to write a load of policies yourself or sit down with some lawyers and go through it all and make it relevant to your business.
What most startups do is they buy an off the shelf pack of policies from a compliance consultant.
And to make those policies relevant to your business is very, very time consuming.
And yet you have to do it, you have to get it right and you have to get the culture in the company right as well.
All the senior management have got to understand compliance.
It's expensive, but if the cost of compliance is expensive, the cost of non compliance is a hell of a lot more.
So you have to have the culture where there's a ball meeting when they're thinking about taking on some technology. When you're thinking about working with certain liquidity providers, you've got to think compliance, you've got to think, have I done my due diligence on this firm? It's not just a matter of, I've got a friend who works for this bank, they can give me some liquidity.
You've got to prove that you've done your due diligence on them. You know, what sort of size of their overall balances sheet are you going to be trading with, et cetera, et cetera.
So it's, I'd say policies is probably the first thing.
And putting in putting down on paper everything you decide to do in your firm, it's very easy to sort of get excited and go off and.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Work.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: With different partners and not expand the company without having it logged. You've got to have everything written down, you know, have meetings, minutes, minute. Every meeting you do, this is really important.
And don't forget you're going to expand. We've expanded quite a lot and I have to do due diligence on every new member of staff, every new liquidity provider, et cetera. And you must be on top of that. And that's quite a challenge.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: And so these challenges, which I fully understand been part of smaller companies growing from a standing start, how much of a disadvantage is that against a big company that's got all of that? Is that just an inevitable hurdle you've got to get over and then you can scale pretty quickly, so you just have to stack it up, I suppose. You've got to take on, as you've said, you can't because the risk of non compliance is the future of your company.
So it might be costly, it might be time consuming. You've got to do it. But. So you have an early disadvantage, do you, against the bigger companies that have this or.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah, you do, because big companies have huge compliance departments now. You've seen some of the fines going around for the big banks, you know, tens of millions. And it's, you know, the FCA park themselves in some of these big firms and sit there and monitor them.
And because they're so big, they have staff for each aspect of what they need to client for. If it's just some people just do entertainment, you know, that's all they do is sit there and make sure, you know that there's no bribery, corruption going on. But for a small firm, you've got to be jack of all trades and that takes experience or you're going to be paying a lot, a lot of money out to compliance consultants to sort of help you get set up and get going.
So the, you know, an experienced compliance officer, someone who knows the markets, who's, who's built up a firm, you know, unfortunately it's not cheap, but it's, it's a cost you've got to do. But as the company grows, I mean, I was there doing all account opening, due diligence on clients, looking after everything, juicing all the K factors for the fda, doing everything myself. Now we're growing, you know, we've got a team of people that, you know, for market abuse and anti money laundering, our Main point is onboarding the client. That's our pretty biggest risk.
So we have to make sure we do proper due diligence, enhanced due diligence, where's needed.
So, yeah, I've now got staff doing that for me, which I oversee and do, help out and check on, do random checks on clients, etc. Etc.
So as a bigger company, once you grow, once you get over that initial stage and you take on more people, you can, you know, you can delegate, which is nice.
But initial days is very difficult because you've got to be an expert on every single aspect of compliance.
And I'd say, how is that training done? You know, make sure you're doing lots of training. I gave so much training to all MAS staff when they started.
You know, one, to tell the fca, look, we're doing this, but two, just so people understand, you know, and it pays off. You know, I have, you know, people calling me up, picking up things because they learned it in trading. And it's. It's important.
Train yourself. I'm constantly training, I'm constantly taking exams, but make sure all the staff are all trained.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: I think that's the key message to take away here, which is that everyone owns the world of compliance because you just create problems for the firm and for yourself if you don't take that time and effort. And some people I remember back in the day, compliance was painful and we didn't want to listen to it and we just want to get out and do business. But in today's world, in yesterday's world too, but now, of course, it's is fundamental. And if you had to point to one trend that's going to develop in time for mass, particularly as you keep growing, as we see more developments, is there one area that you're gearing up for that you think is going to become more prevalent and we all going to have to pay attention to. Or is it just more of the same?
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Just going back to what you're saying, first of all about, you know, everyone being involved. Yeah, I mean, that is obviously very, very important.
If you know, the nice junior person, we train them so they see something, they can pass the ball along. And it's a bit like rugby, you know, you're out in the wing, Bill Carlin's got the ball, he'd have the passes to you. So that's another try gone begging, you know, and it's very much the same. You need to pass now you've hit a raw nut.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: But I see what I've seen quite A bit in my years is sort of, first of all, it's the technology coming in of computerized trading, et cetera, et cetera. But now AI is really coming to the forewar. Now, I've mentioned it before, the FCA handbook, it's huge. And you read something, you don't really understand it and it says click here for an explanation and it takes you there and you click there and it takes you back to where you were and it's no help whatsoever. But if you go into AI now, it can search that for relevant things for you in a second.
You don't rely on it because I've actually called it out by asking it the same question in two different ways and they're two different answers. But it's very, it's, it helps you in terms of time and I need to search for this to go into SUP rulebook and find this thing. Boom, it comes out. Then you can go to the handbook. It's guided you there rather than having to work your way through it. So I think artificial intelligence, particularly on the digital side as well, the crypto side, you know, as that's going to grow, you know, searching for market abuse through the wallet's history, et cetera, et cetera. I mean that's the way the markets are moving, I think.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And just referencing the fact that Carly wouldn't pass the ball. And on a previous podcast with the great David Campisi, he noted the fact I might be playing on the wing, but did I ever get the ball? Because Carlin never passed it. And I did say, well, Jeremy Gusko was even worse actually, so.
But there we are, we will get back in time. And so Glenn, we've covered off a generation of compliance trend development and going back from open outcry markets to a world of high automation and digital trends and technology everywhere you look.
How do you see the biggest opportunity for a fast growing business like Mass within that context of navigating all the hurdles you had to do at the very beginning when you started it all going and now consolidating that growth and taking it forward to the next levels, how do you see, how do you see that playing out in today's world?
[00:26:33] Speaker A: Well, like I mentioned earlier, I was saying that the technology is really sort of helping the compliance department.
I think that Mas being a technological company, you know, that's what we provide, liquidity and technology.
We've grown with a 32nd fastest growing firm in the UK across all industries.
Marie's got something right. And the technology we're on top of it, we've got really good support and technology, we've got really good understanding of what's required with Mass digital on the crypto side. I mean, that's going to be the future and we're really at the hub of all that.
So any firm looking to set up and get involved in broke in a need technology.
That's what we do. We're doing, making sure everything is seamless in terms of integrating your trading platforms with your CRM, et cetera, et cetera, which is all compliant compliance needs. To use this technology to monitor what's going on and have everything flowing together in one system is a great advantage for compliance and it's a great advantage of the industry that wants to get more involved in the crypto side, which is where this market's going. Any innovation, you need to have a good platform that can adapt.
So if it's going to be More options on FX, CFDs, et cetera, et cetera, that's going to require technology that's going to have to integrate in with everything else. And this is what MAS does. They make sure that all our clients have easier a seamless movement between all aspects of their firm on one sort of technological state.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: So what you're describing here is compliance as an engine for growth.
And that's such a different analysis from what we all thought. And I readily admit I would think if I had the compliance department onto me, I'd either done something wrong or something I didn't understand or a bit of both, and so I'd panic, you know. But here we've got compliance that's actually at the center of everything to try and drive that growth forward. I mean, is that the way we.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Need to look at it? Absolutely. I mean, it's all about one word, which is confidence.
We talk about people's monies, their pensions, etc. Not that we have any retail customers ourselves, but our clients do.
But people need to have confidence in the financial system of the UK for it to be strong and to continue to grow.
And the way you have that confidence is have compliance. So when people are behaving badly, they're shouted out that it's public, don't use this firm, whatever, or the people are no longer able to practice.
So when you have got firms like Mass, you know, it's got a perfect compliance record. You know, with compliance, that culture I was talking about before evidence in the firm, it gives people confidence to place their money into these markets. And also compliance is stopping the, the old put your money in FX and you'll make loads of money, go and buy a yacht. You know, that doesn't work anymore. You have to be compliant. Any financial promotions have to be balanced.
And as you can probably see by the podcasts and the social media posts that we put out, everything that our team puts out has been reviewed by myself and it gets authorized by me to make sure that it's balanced and it's not leading people into invest into something that they don't understand the risks they're doing.
Risk assessment is major part of compliance now.
Not just risks to the firm, but risks to the end users as well. Everyone on the. You have to make sure that this confidence is there in the device you get in, is balanced and firms are behaving correctly.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: And so if you're going back again to an individual, if you're giving advice to someone coming into this kind of marketplace, whether big or small company, actually that it's really a question of embrace all aspects of the business.
People who are persuaded by the bright lights of, I want to be advising on this investment, that investment, I want to get into this new asset class. And it all feels really exciting that the messages, you know, have your compliance hat on, understand where the risk management is, take ownership of it. That's part of what your career needs to be as well. It's not just be the star trader, which perhaps in the old days you could do stuff like that, people could. We all knew there were big names who did more than anybody else did and they were the ones that you go to for your market intelligence.
But it's more of a holistic sort of team approach to all the products to get success.
What have I missed? Is that the advice for someone coming into the business or trying to develop their skills in the business?
[00:32:07] Speaker A: You're absolutely right.
I was working as a consultant for a while and I had a few people come to me and say, yeah, I want to set up an FX firm, broking firm, you know, I've got some backers, they can give us some money where we can buy a platform when we can get off and get going.
And I said, well, why? And they said, well, we want to make money. And I said, yeah, but why are you going to get any clients?
We'll advertise everyone's advertising, you know, what's your usb? What? You know, have a proper business plan. And they didn't and they just thought it was build it and they will come.
And I'd say over the last 10 to five years ago, there was a lot of Firms setting up that all went down because they didn't have a usb. They just thought build it and they'll come. That doesn't work anymore. You really have got to understand your business plan. You've got to have a proper thought out business plan and that must include every aspect of the business. Compliance, technology, third parties. If you're going to be planning having someone providing you with IT support, who are they? Do your due diligence on them, keep it, prove it, have it written down.
Same with all your LPs, no matter how big they are, do your due diligence on them all. And you have to have all this in place to be successful.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: And do you think that the challenge for. Because this is a whole, it's a competitive, dynamic marketplace, given that maths have concentrated on this core competence and it's going to produce a fantastic platform for growth, by definition there'll be some people who perhaps shortcut it or don't understand the implications going forward.
So do you see companies in the marketplace having to reassess where their priorities are because they haven't quite grasped this dynamic?
Because the marketplace would be unforgiving, won't it, if people fall over?
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Market reputation, reputational risk is a huge thing in our marketplace.
You know, we've been established for a while, we got old experience people working there and we've been accepted and you know, so we're growing well.
Too many people just want to tick boxes. You know, we've got a compliance officer, that box ticked. You know, we got a chief financial officer that box ticked. We can just crack on doing what we want to do is just go out marketing.
You know, it doesn't work like that.
You really have to have a whole complete team of people that cover every aspect of the business and have a reputation for performing, doing well.
The old days of just ticking boxes, I think are gone.
Technology is helping but you still need people who can be forward thinking and that's what Mass have proved they can do. The directors, the senior management, they're always looking further down the line.
We might have gone down some routes and decided to retrace back because it wasn't the thing. But we're forward thinking and other people in the firm pull everything together, make sure it all works and everything integrates with everything else, which is an important part.
That's why it's a good team spirit. Everyone respects everyone else because they're all experts at what they do.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Well. Listen, and of course our, our co founder started life as a compliance officer. So if you like. There's an already an early understanding of what the challenges were likely to be. And for me it's a combination when I listen to all of this. First of all, thank you for making it a relatively dry topic because it can be perceived as such, actually bring it to the heart of everything that this company is trying to generate and develop. And it just goes to show that all aspects of business as in sport, you know, you can be the, my rubby analogy, you can be the loose head prop that gets very few plaudits and sort of, you know, does gets involved with all the dark arts but they're fundamental to the organization of a team. And of course, let's not forget all the off field support that you get as well. So all of these things go to make a successful team. And if I've taken anything away from today, you know, we can have big headlines around where the gold price is going or perhaps there's some other big political financial headline. But the companies that sit and develop the market and grow with the market, you need all skill sets brought to bear. And you know, mass, even though small, is producing that great sort of set of skills which will go towards long term success and building the platform. So I'm sure over the years to come we will all look back at those building blocks as really important pieces of a long term success.
So I'd like to say thank you, Glenn.
We will continue to look forward to successful weeks of sports on and off the field.
But as these markets whip around, which they are very volatile and we're into that time of year where there tend to be some quite big market movements, I suspect that having the core platform to withstand and benefit from them is where MAS will sit. So thank you for your time, Glenn. And that's it from Hannah's playbook. See you again.
